Wednesday, October 22, 2008

Deja Vu

Salam to all.

Déjà vu:
"already seen"; also called "paramnesia," from Greek παρα "para," "near" + μνήμη "mnēmē," "memory") is the experience of feeling sure that one has witnessed or experienced a new situation previously (an individual feels as though an event has already happened or has happened in the near past).

KUALA LUMPUR, Oct 21 — Finance Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak said today the government will borrow RM5 billion from the Employees Provident Fund to fund government investment agency Valuecap Sdn Bhd.

"It's not part of the Consolidated Fund. It's a loan from EPF," said Najib.

The Deputy Prime Minister pointed out that the loan would not be part of the Budget 2009 allocations for spending announced last month.

Yesterday, Najib announced a host of measures to boost the economy and protect Malaysia from the effects of the global financial turmoil

Reading this I can't help having the deja vuic situation. EPF funds being used again for another (?)bailout. Seems like it happened yesterday.Anyway that yesterday was about 10 years ago.
Apparently its the Rakyats' money that is needed to save whatever needed to be saved, except the rakyats' souls.

Bakaq Penarik Beca summed up my feelings on this matter:

Amboi, bila kita nak pakai sikit duit kita dalam KWSP, kena mengemis macam peminta sedekah. Kadang-kadang pelbagai karenah menyebabkan kita rasa kita ni macam kucing kurap walaupun nak minta duit sendiri. Depa senang-senang boleh tibai RM5 bilion untuk bail-out saham-saham terkincit nilai. Hampa nak kata apa?!! Depa ada kuasa. Hidup kuasa!!

Tokasid nak tanya : Adakah dari segi undang-undang wang simpanan rakyat didalam EPF bleh di gunakan tanpa izin pencarum-pencarum?


bergen said...

I don't get it how the whole thing works out, this loan business between the EPF and other agencies, to the government. Can you sue the government for default if they can't pay up for reasons like credit crunch or economic meltdown? Who has the authority to approve the loan? Does it rest on one man's signature, or does it have to go through a series of approvals all the way up to the board? Is the board under pressure to approve? Can I too get a loan? Does my application have to approved by one guy with a fat fountain pen who does all the signing? Would it help if I knew him well so he can just close one eye and endorse my application?

And what if I can't pay up because I believe tis' the best time to obtain as many loans as possible. Who knows, the economic will go bottom down and there's no way I'd be able to pay and there's a chance I'd be excused for defaulting on the loan.

Kata Tak Nak said...

EPF tu bukan untuk kita untuk jamin masa depan. EPF tu untuk depa ikut suka mak pak depa saja. Kita rakyat mestilah belajar berkorban untuk pemimpin2 dan kroni depa. memang dah lama kita dok korban untuk depa sampai bulu pun tak dak dah so korban lah sikit lagi asalkan depa dan kroni dan anak bini bahagia.

bisu said...

Here's the provision which allows EPF to give loans to govt or other agencies:

"ACT 452


Section 26. Power of the Board to invest.

(1) The Board may subject to subsection 18 (2), invest moneys belonging to the Fund in the following manner:

(a) to be deposited in—

(i) Bank Negara Malaysia; or

(ii) banks duly licensed under the Banking and Financial Institutions Act 1989 [Act 372]; or

(iii) any other financial institution duly licensed under the Banking and Financial Institutions Act 1989 and approved by the Minister;

(b) to be invested in—

(i) shares of any public company listed on the stock exchange established in Malaysia and buying of new shares, the issue or sale of which has been approved under the Securities Industry Act 1983 [Act 280], in any public limited company incorporated in Malaysia which is listed on a stock exchange in Malaysia or the listing of which on a stock exchange in Malaysia has been approved under the Securities Industry Act 1983; or

(ii) debentures of any public company;
(c) in bonds or purchasing of mortgage papers, commercial notes, banker's acceptances, money market papers, certificates of deposits, private debt securities, promissory notes and bills of exchange within the meaning of the Bills of Exchange Act 1949 [Act 204] and other negotiable instrument of similar nature;

(d) in accordance with the provisions of the Trustee Act 1949 [Act 208]:

Provided however, where the Board invests in or upon titles to immovable property in Malaysia in accordance with paragraph 4(1)

(c) of the Trustee Act 1949, such immovable property may or may not yield any income at the time of such investment;

(e) to provide loans to Federal or State Government; and

(f) to provide loans to members of the Fund subject to such terms and conditions as may be determined by the Board for the purpose of purchasing or building a house.

(2) The Board may with the written approval of the Minister, invest moneys belonging to the Fund in the following manner:

(a) to be deposited in any bank or financial institution established by or under any written law;

(b) to be invested in any joint venture;

(c) by participating in any privatization programme;

(d) to provide loans to any company incorporated under the Companies Act 1965 [Act 125] or any corporation established by or under any written law;

(e) by investing in any investment outside Malaysia;

(ea) by participating in or by carrying out dealings in any derivative instruments; or

(f) investing in any other form of investment.

(3) For the purpose of this section—

"debenture" includes debenture stock, bonds, notes and any other securities of a corporation whether constituting a charge on the assets of the corporation or not;

"derivative instruments" means a financial contract including forward contract, futures contract and option contract; and

"share" means paid-up shares (whether fully paid or not) in the share capital of a company and includes stocks and rights to subscribe for any stocks and shares.

(4) The Board may, where a foreign currency is required as an instrument of investment, in exercising the investment which has been approved under this section, make loan of the foreign currency for the purpose of the investment."

cakapaje said...

Salam Doc,

Good q! Let's see what our PR legal people say about this. Also, perhaps from the Bar Council.

blackpurple @ jowopinter said...

KWSP. Itulah sumbangan kita sebagai rakyat yang baik doc. Kita sebagai rakyat mesti kena berkorban untuk diaorang doc. Bailout, misalnya. Ha ha ha!

Mat Salo said...


Time and time again this is gomen's solution in the face of crisis triggered by economic panic.

I dare suggest that the majority of the Rakyat does not own stocks except indirectly through mutual funds, or for Bumiputera's, the ASN/ASB instruments.

But you and I know who really benefits from the 'bail-out' don't you? It's the cronies, those the people in corridors ... linked to GLCs and blue chipped companies. The true benefactor is BN.


Ini yang aku tak paham ni.

Kerp (Ph.D) said...

these fellas are above the law la doc. to them, malaysia is solely theirs, boleh buat sukati mak bapak dia je. kalo dah takde duit sngt tu, scrap all the stupid coridor projects la...hangat2 taik kambing je lebih.

Anonymous said...

I just hope that KWSP will get back a good return from value cap. I am not an economist, but the govt should have anticipated the problems very much earlier. This is a global economic cycle that we have experienced a few times. Ukur baju dibadan sendiri; kelak tahu untung dan rugi; Jangan!! Gali lubang tutup lubang, kelak nanti terkangkang kangkang- ngalompakagogo

tokasid said...


I am sure many felt exassperated and had those questions running through their mind.
As I see it, we are not protected from the whims and fancies of our leaders.

tokasid said...

Che'gu: EPF is like 'ibu duit'.So is Petronas.
These leaders use ibu duit to rectify mistakes or mismanagement within certain investment arms.

Hang ada ingat tak few years ago, there was this programme about using one's EPF accounts to invest in something called annuity/anuiti(?). What happened to that programme? Semua kaput kena kapoq.

tokasid said...

Thanks for showing us the provision.So what the did is legally right and it just confirms that we have no say in our savings.
Now our leaders have the exclusive rights to use our savings like their own.

Will the be accountable if their investments crashed too?

Have they got the best advices before using EPF's fund( yeah I know the gomen only borrowed our money). We have seen the so called experts in several GLC boards made unwise decisions and made huge losses.

tokasid said...

Shah Rir Khan:

So far no 'noise' from them.

tokasid said...

Wak Pinter:

EPF adalah sumbangan wajib kita kepada negara dan sebagai (?) tabungan di hari tua nanti. Cuba bayar lambat atau carum lambat..pasti kena denda(saya dah pernak kena).
Tapi adakah pemipin atau penasihat2 yang memberi nasihat yg salah ke atas kegunaan fund EPF akan di denda jika tersilap atau lambat bayar balik?

tokasid said...

Pak Mas Salo:

Ini yang dok buang jadi bengang pak. Depa ikut suka nak pakai macam duit EPF tu duit pak depa saja.

Katakan aku tak boleh nak bayar duit rumah ke atau duit kereta ka...adakah aku boleh keluarkan duit EPF aku? Duit yang aku carumkan.

Bila depa buat blunder nanti masing2 buat muka sardin saja hang tengok lah.

tokasid said...


Yes, they do think they are the law. If you go back to ancient history in China and Egypt the leaders/rulers think they are the law and they plunder the nations treasure as they please.

tokasid said...

Bro ngaklompakagogo:

Masaalahnya depa tak ukur baju kat badan sendiri. Aku bimbang tindakan ini hanya nak selamatkan beberapa kerat kroni depa saja.

Kalau memang untuk rakyat aku tak kesah.Tapi kalau untuk kepentingan peribadi mereka aku memang tak setuju.

Anonymous said...

Doc,Bila amanah dipunahranah,rakyat akan bersumpahseranah.Lalu dgn beban itu tak tertanggung dipundaknya tika berdepan dgn Allah diPdg Masyar nanti...Kasihan alangkah baiknya kalau mereka mengerti.... Rio

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